BG and Charlie V

Over at PistonPowered, Patrick Hayes has an excellent post evaluating the performances of Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva as members of the Detroit Pistons.

In short, Patrick argues:

Both Gordon and Villanueva seem like pleasant enough guys. Both could have legitimate beefs about how they’ve been used at times with this team, and they’ve largely kept quiet in the media about it, remained positive and seem like good teammates.

Unfortunately, both are paid like cornerstones of a franchise, and clearly, neither guy is. Ultimately the blame for signing them to long-term deals for the amount of money they’re making lies with Joe Dumars.

I encourage any Pistons fan to check out the rest of his piece. It’s one of my favorite posts of the season. I agree with Patrick on essentially every point he makes, which is no surprise considering that BG and Charlie V are wonderful examples of the type of player that Wins Produced analysis argues conventional wisdom overvalues.

I thought it may be interesting, though, to supplement Patrick’s keen analysis with the Automated Wins Produced numbers to underscore the points he rightly makes. Without further ado, here are the career Wins Produced numbers for both players (powered by Nerd Numbers):

Microsoft Excel - BG and Charlie V_2011-01-25_16-22-06

Remembering that an “average” players posts a Wins Produced per 48 Minutes of .100, the Wins Produced numbers suggest that both players, who are on the books at significant cost to whomever the Pistons new owner might be, are actually below average. Or in other words, they contribute very little to winning, as Patrick rightly claims.

Both players present a significant problem for Detroit. They have certainly underperformed relative to their career averages (especially given their age – we would expect to see peak performance right about now), but even worse, their career performances in general are very underwhelming. Essentially, both have gone from bad to worse as Pistons, and there’s little to suggest they might right the ship.

With Patrick, although I’d argue the point a little more forcefully, I conclude that it’s time for a change.

It’s not Gordon’s or Villanueva’s fault that the Pistons offered them the deals they did. I respect that both players seemingly wanted to be in Detroit and made the commitment. But the Pistons rightfully expected more out of them, and whether or not the Pistons would be better off cutting their losses and looking for trades for both of their high profile signings of 2009 is now a legitimate question the team will have to answer.

3 thoughts on “BG and Charlie V

  1. Charlie V is simply a poor PF who should not have been signed by the Pistons.

    Ben Gordon, OTOH, is a solid role player who needs to be used properly by a head coach who: A. Really knows what he’s doing, and B. Runs an offensive system which is similar to the Triangle Offense that can effectively mask BG’s deficiencies while accentuating his strengths.

    The main problem with Ben Gordon in Detroit has not been his actual talent level or his overall poor play, relatively speaking, but the “poor fit” which exists with the other PGs, OGs and SFs on the Pistons roster:

    PG – Stuckey and Bynum [too small to play beside Gordon]
    OG – Hamilton and Gordon [too small to play beside Bynum], White
    SF – Prince, McGrady and Daye
    PF – Villanueva [too soft], Maxiell, Jerebko, Summers and Wilcox
    C – Monroe and Wallace

    in conjunction with a “soft” PF like Charlie V, who is a non-physical player that does not excel in the areas which are most important to creating Team Success, from the PF position, at the highest levels of competition, including: 1. Rebounding, 2. Transition Defense, 3. Half-court Help/Rotational Defense, 4. Pick & Roll Defense, 5. Interior [i.e. 1-v-1] Defense, 6. Screening, 7. Shot-blocking, 8. Passing, 9. Interior Scoring, and 10. Free Throw Conversions.

  2. Pingback: A Tale of Two Backcourts | Pistons by the Numbers

  3. Pingback: Pistons roundtable: Joe Dumars’ culpability for the state of the Pistons « PistonPowered

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